new toys on the way

[Camuman]

aem ems 1052u
aem serial gauge

grabbed a great deal for this and a dual gauge pod, o2 sensor. gonna sell the pod and sensor though. pretty sure the aem will work with the stock o2 which i beleive is wide band already.

[candymanjl]

no doubt sucka! couple months and then boost!

[Almighty-Si]

Good pick up. Good to get the ECU now and start playing with it before getting boost so you can get used to the software. I am not 100% sure if the stock 02 is a wideband but before you get rid of it I would make sure.

[Camuman]

Good pick up. Good to get the ECU now and start playing with it before getting boost so you can get used to the software. I am not 100% sure if the stock 02 is a wideband but before you get rid of it I would make sure.

a are most definetely right, stock 02 will not work. so the new 02 is going in the car.

so true too, better to learn now then later where more can go wrong!

[Camuman]

more toys on the way:

modifry temp gauge fix and modifry aftermarket radio kit to make side buttons work wiht my pioneer radio.

should be fun!

[Almighty-Si]

Aw man I thought I was gonna open this and see "just bought the GT42 and ramhorn manifold"...LoL J/K

Nice pick up ! What's this temp gauge fix ?

[Camuman]

Aw man I thought I was gonna open this and see "just bought the GT42 and ramhorn manifold"...LoL J/K

Nice pick up ! What's this temp gauge fix ?

the aem will not work with my dash cluster temp gauge. not the end of the world since i have the aem serial gauge, but i wanted it to work anwyas, so theres a dude on s2ki that has engineered a fix for it, so that the stock cluster temp gauge will display correctly.

kinda annoying that aem didnt just fix this themselves, but whatever.

[Camuman]

http://h22civic.com/pictures/2005%20S2k/IMG_0235.jpg


free shot of the S with better lighting...

also toys came in!

http://h22civic.com/pictures/2005%20S2k/IMG_0239.jpg

[Almighty-Si]

Good stuff !

I thought that AEM did fix that, oh well...like you said not that big of deal. When you planning on getting that installed and heading out to the dyno? I'm anxious to see the results.

[Camuman]

finaly got everything in the car. rich and i got it up and running and spent about 1.5 hours tuning part throttle and wot. i took the stock ap1 map in the aem, added some fuel, took 2 degrees timing out of the whole map, lowered vtec to 5k, and made rev limiter at 8500. right now, idles great, feels super smooth, 14.7ish part throttle, and 13.2ish on wot. were gona hit the dyno in a few weeks to nail down the wot and timing.

my baseline dyno was 212whp 156tq. guy only ran it to 7800, but by then the car was 12:1. i promise a good showing this time!

[candymanjl]

no doubt, curious to see what this biznatch does on the dyno.

[Almighty-Si]

Good shit ! When you get to the dyno try adding 1% fuel on your WOT and see if the power goes up. 13.2 is good but sometimes a little extra fuel will add some power and will keep EGT's a little lower.

Can't wait to see what she puts down though. I can see it putting down 15whp. You might also want to try a step colder plug.

[candymanjl]

fo show, we'll have to play with the a/f ratio and the timing, see what combo gives us the most power.

[Camuman]

oh yeah, its gonna be a lot of fun. cant wait thats for sure!

[Almighty-Si]

So what you waiting for get out there and get to it ! I think I'm more excited than you guys...LoL

5 weeks till deals also something to think about. You will want that tuned for the long trip so you can get some sweet gas mileage.

[candymanjl]

ha ha, hell yeah, I got 32mpg on the highway last time, and that was averaging 85mph the whole way up!

we're gonna play with the tuning on the S some more before the dyno. if we use the g-tech in the road race mode where it just shows the G forces we can kinda use it as a dyno to help pick the right a/f ratio. just find the a/f ratio that pulls the most G's without knock :D then when we go to the dyno we'll just have to worry about timing and fine tuning things.

[Almighty-Si]

You don't have to do all that. Just get full throttle a/f as flat as possible then when you get to the dyno you can just add and subtract percentages to the full throttle trace and just check power output.

[candymanjl]

yeah I know we don't have to do that, but it's fun :) and saves dyno time.

[Almighty-Si]

You shouldn't need more than an hour honestly if you get the a/f locked down on the street. I made 11 pulls in just over an hour and twenty minutes with cool time in between and swapping plugs.

With Ant's car you should be able to get it tuned with 5-8 pulls. Adding timing per run and smoothing a/f out.

Whatever just get it on the dyno already !!! :D

[candymanjl]

ha ha, we will, just waiting on me to get my headers on then we'll rent the dyno for a few hours and tune both our cars at the same time.

[Almighty-Si]

WTF c'mon already ! Do I need to come down there and do it myself ? :D

[candymanjl]

ha ha, I'd gladly let you :D

[Almighty-Si]

1 month till Deals...you guys better get your asses in gear !

[candymanjl]

yeah yeah, we're actually working on the exhaust right now, taking a dinner break :) got the old exhaust off, putting the headers on now. had to weld the bung on for the O2, now I just gotta drill a hole for the EGT and it's good to go. then tomorrow I'll go by the exhaust shop and get the exhaust put back on.

[Almighty-Si]

Nice !

So we should see some dyno plots next week? :D

[candymanjl]

ant is calling now, probably monday since we don't think they're open on the weekends.

[Camuman]

update, monday were heading to the dyno to tune both of them. will post before and afters of the tune as well as this little base line.

http://h22civic.com/pictures/2005%20S2k/dyno/ant-s2k-dyno-baseline.jpg

guy didnt rev it all the way out and i didnt notice till after. ghey to say the least.

[candymanjl]

here's the new before and after dyno, you really can't compare it to the first dyno since its a different dyno. anyway we gained power by the end of the day so that's cool.

http://www.superpimps.com/candymanjl/antss2kdyno.jpg

[Camuman]

94 degrees ambient and 140 intake temps for the win! rofl. leave it to me to dyno tune the car when its hot in south florida. just to be a dyno queen, i;ll grab one in the fall ;)

[CivicBeater]

nice numbers! Where is the crx's dyno?!?!

[Almighty-Si]

Good shit ! Yea you really can't compare to the first as it is a different dyno but it's a sweet pick up from the base run.

What plugs? Part that concerns me is that hill in TQ at 7700-7900 rpm and the dip from 3300-4200 rpm. 140 degree IAT's are a bitch too. Could you post some screen shots of the low/high cam timing maps?

[Camuman]

Good shit ! Yea you really can't compare to the first as it is a different dyno but it's a sweet pick up from the base run.

What plugs? Part that concerns me is that hill in TQ at 7700-7900 rpm and the dip from 3300-4200 rpm. 140 degree IAT's are a bitch too. Could you post some screen shots of the low/high cam timing maps?

def as soon as i get home i will post up. as for plugs, i have the iridium ngks. i did them when i had the stock ecu to smooth out idle. but now i think they may be hurting me. gonna pick up the stock plugs that the car came with and try those. everyone i ask says just use stock unless you boost it for this car. whats your feeling?

[candymanjl]

I personally don't see how the iridiums could be hurting anything, they might be overkill for all motor but I'd be surprised if you're loosing anything. stop listening to the S2KI show fags :D

[Almighty-Si]

Plugs are the most overlooked piece in anyone building their car. Just cause honda recommends a heat range it doesn't make it ideal and rule of thumb only goes so far. I mean would you put a map in your ecu and rape your car on it cause the person who gave it to you has the same set-up? That would be foolish, and not looking for the right plug for your car is the same. Just cause someone has good luck with a stock or a single heat range colder or hotter plug, doesn't mean it's the best for your motor, even if it's stock.

Reading/choosing the right plugs for your car is 1 of the most important tuning tools in making power. You can tune to MBT on the dyno but if 1 of your cylinders is running hotter/leaner (why do people put EGT probes in the #3 cylinder again?) than the others and causing you to reach MBT doesn't mean the car can't make more power. This is where pulling your plugs comes into play. You can read the plug and see if timing is too far advanced on the particular cylinder and retard it and add more timing to all the cylinders to pick up some more power, same goes for fuel.

If you don't choose the right plug or go by what someone suggests you can reach MBT and even if all your cylinders are firing evenly and still hit a wall cause of detonation that may even not show up on the dyno. So going to a colder plug could net you more power just swapping out the plug to colder alone without any tuning and if it does, then there is more power to be made.

As for platnium and iridiums, obviously they're not good for boost cause they don't dissipate heat as well as standard copper plugs which is bad for obvious reasons but also you wouldn't want that tip to break off and bounce around in your bore. On a nearly stock N/A car not as critical but even then I can't see spending the money on those kinds of plugs when they should be changed often anyways.

I personally picked up 8whp switching from the #7's I had in the car to #9's without doing anything to the map as it was tuned to MBT with the #7's installed. I have heard of instances where people have picked up 5-15whp on some high (11.0:1 - 12.0:1) compression motors by going colder on the plug and reading them to make sure everything was burning evenly. On a boosted set-up and tuning people have made 25whp increase. Not bad for $8 bucks if you ask me.

[candymanjl]

as far as iridiums I've never seen anyone not recommend them for boosted applications and in my experience they last much longer which also aggress with what I've heard. and the tip alone isn't what dissapates the heat, it's the design of the whole plug. and it makes sense, that's why you can get iridiums in the same heat ranges as the copper plugs. good blurb http://www.machv.com/denirsparplu.html

this shows what makes a plug colder or hotter, most of the heat is transfered through the body of the plug... http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overviewp2.asp?nav=31000&country=US

I'd be really surprised if a properly working / gapped plug on a motor that wasn't detonating was replaced and a large gain was seen. I think a lot of times guys replace dead plugs with new ones and post these huge gains. typically when the idle gets a little rough and that's when I know it's time for plugs. I also check the plugs when I change the oil, that's worked out good so far.

NGK's site says the plug temp should be between 500 and 850 C, about 932 - 1560 F. the highest full throttle temps I'm seeing are around 1400 so with the one range colder than stock plugs I'm probably pretty good. when I checked / gapped the plugs right before the dyno they where surprisingly clean for a couple of thousand miles. if I go out to the dyno again I'll put in brand new plugs and bring another set that's a range colder just for fun, see if there's a power difference.

[candymanjl]

all that blah blah blah, and then I read this which is the only thing that makes sense to my pea brain for gaining power with a colder plug. from NGK's site...

"In identical spark plug types, the difference from one heat range to the next is the ability to remove approximately 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber."

then this comment...
"If the tip temperature is lower than 500°C, the insulator area surrounding the center electrode will not be hot enough to burn off carbon and combustion chamber deposits. These accumulated deposits can result in spark plug fouling leading to misfire."

so if you can run a colder plug and still keep the temps up enough to burn off the carbon deposits and keep the plug from fouling then you should gain power. so tossing in a colder plug should gain you power on the dyno but if it's too cold a week later you're motor is missing from all the crap fouling out the plug. I guess you could just try a colder plug and see if it lasts a while, if it lasts then you've got the right range.

[Almighty-Si]

Well thats where reading comes in. You can see the timing marks on the ground strap and determine the A/F mix by the color at the base. The threads on the plug should also show some heat rings going up 2-3 threads, if you have more plug is too hot, less and its too cold.

If you pull a plug and it looks clean it could still be too hot or even detonating. If you take the plug and put it under a magnifing glass you can see a shiny glaze on it, it's more than likely detonating, even if it's not showing on the dyno. Swapping those with another set of colder plugs should raise power without doing anything to your map.

The results I have seen, were all from well known tuners and on fresh plugs for the sole purpose of checking output between them and from my personal experience. That is more than enough evidence for me. As for the tips breaking off, I have heard stories from the same tuners and from a couple different members of another forum (with pics of the results of the tips bouncing around the bore).

Best thing would be to try it yourself. I'm just trying to help.

[candymanjl]

true, with it lowering the combustion chamber temps then I can see where there's power to be gained. as long as that power gained isn't short term while the plugs just foul out quicker than the hotter plug would have. next time we hit the dyno we'll bring at least one set of colder plugs to play with. I'm running 7's right now since stock were 6's. next trip out I'll bring a set of new 7's and new 8's to compare.

oh yeah, another thing worth mentioning that we found out between both our cars. what the dyno's wideband read at the tailpipe vs what our wideband O2's in the headers read were pretty far off, even with no cats. on average I was about .5 richer according to the AEM than what the tailpipe said. anthony's S was .7 to 1.0 richer at the AEM sensor than the exhaust, pretty interesting.

[Almighty-Si]

oh yeah, another thing worth mentioning that we found out between both our cars. what the dyno's wideband read at the tailpipe vs what our wideband O2's in the headers read were pretty far off, even with no cats. on average I was about .5 richer according to the AEM than what the tailpipe said. anthony's S was .7 to 1.0 richer at the AEM sensor than the exhaust, pretty interesting.

Tailpipe 02's always seem to be a little leaner for some reason. My friends Mustang read 11.5 on the dyno's wideband but when we stuck mine in his X pipe for laughs, it was reading 10.7's...I don't know <shrug>