Blanks better than drilled/slotted?

[CivicBeater]

I was reading an ad on the dredded H-T as I'm looking to upgrade my brakes. I always figured drilled/slotted were better because they cost more and b/c they breath. However this guy is saying that the brembo blanks that are alot cheaper AND perform better. What is your guys experience or opinions on this. I want to order which ever is going to work the best.


quote that is confusing me

"Cross-drilled rotors might look "cool", but what are they really doing for performance? Brake rotors were first "drilled" in the 40's and 50's because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures, which is called "gassing out". These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The "cross drilled" holes were implemented to give the gasses a place to escape. Todays brake pad materials do not exhibit the same gassing out problems as these early (old) pads."

Thanks as always

Eric

[Rex-Si]

I personaly think todays sloted and drilled rotors are just a market ploy.
Companys cashing in cause if they tell you its better , its gotta be better .
If you think of the design it makes sence that the only thing they do is help cool the pads some. I think if you looking to upgrade then look at bigger rotors and pads....big brake kits = more surface tention.....

Peace,

[candymanjl]

I had the Brembo OEM replacement rotors with VGX pads on my old crx and that combo worked pretty damn good. to go so far as to say the non-slotted / drilled rotors are better than ones that are, I don't know about that, it all depends on the application and what you're doing with the car.

brakes slow the car by turn the momentum energy of the car into heat energy from friction. for the brakes to work well they have to be cooled from the air passing by or they'll be too hot to absorb a lot of heat the next time the brakes are used. once they're too hot they'll start to fail and you're braking distances start to increase. so having the rotors drilled or slotted is a trade off between less area for friction and more cooling of the rotors. a million drills and slots and it takes a long time to heat the brakes and slow the car down. but if you're driving hard the extra cooling is what the car needs to make it a whole lap on a track, or a whole trip down the dragon without the brake fluid boiling ;)

so which one is best? depends what you're doing with the car. stop and go speed limit driving I doubt you'll notice a big difference between most of the different options out there and factory brakes in good condition. figure all brake systems will work well for that one panic stop. that one stop from legal speeds isn't enough friction to overheat the brakes. now make several panic stops in a short amount of time and the brakes that can't dissipate the heat very well will start to fail and the braking distances will get further and further.

even those brembo non-slotted / drilled rotors are still vented, like most OEM brakes. there's a gap with vents between the outside and inside rotor surfaces that allow air to pass inside the rotor so as your driving they're always cooling themselves. under normal circumstances that's probably enough cooling and since it's not drilled or slotted you've got the maximum area for friction so that setup should work well for normal use. but for an all out race setup, just look at what the real deal race cars have, they're all slotted or drilled or both. with all that they have invested into their race programs the drills / slots aren't for looks :) I also remember reading that the powerslots are designed to let gas escape that's created when braking hard, I guess that the gas from the heat can get in the way of the pad touching the rotor. so that's another reason besides just cooling for those designs.

when the rsx's first came out there was an mag article with 5 boosted tuner cars and 3 all motor tuner cars. they had them all graded on 1/4 mile, track time on a road course, skidpad, and braking. for the braking test they did 5 runs in a row with very little time between runs. I forget what speed they stopped from, I think it was 70mph. one car had the factory brakes and the only mod was VGX pads and on the first run it stopped the best by like 5 feet, but it got a couple of feet further each stop. the others had full on brake kits from brembo, stop tech, bear, maybe others. those stopped a little slower the first run, but all of them were within a couple of feet run to run, no brake fade. now for the brake test in this case, the 4 piston caliper kits had to have more grip than the tires had traction so I'm sure that the ABS was going nuts :) run that test again on super sticky road race tires and I'm sure the 4 piston caliper kits would be a lot better.

[candymanjl]

now the footnote on this post, the 99-00 civic Si has horrible brakes! the 60-0 is 159 feet! in comparison the 60-0 on the S2000 is 113 feet, right down there with porsche 911 turbos :cool: so Eric, do something, anything to make those brakes better :D

I'd try either those brembos with VGX pads or powerslots with VGX pads, either way is pretty inexspensive and if you do all 4 corners it should help. or get the wilwood 4-piston caliper kit, it's not too bad, like $650 for the front kit. you have to have 17's to fit those though.

[CivicBeater]

Awsome. Thanks for the time spent on the post...

Wow, I didn't realize there was that much of a difference in stopping distances between em1 and s2k's.

I believe what I'll do is the brembo blanks with good pads. I had pbr or hawk in mind. I haven't come across VGX. I'll do a search on them now.
Yeah but I NEED to do something. My brakes have no bite to them. Also, while at high speeds or aggressive driving they flutter ALOT. I've contacted one guy already to make the order on the brembo's. Got to get the pads! :) I'm pretty certain i'm going for the PBR/Axxis Ultimate pads :)

[candymanjl]

I just mention VGX since I've used those, they're pretty bitey without killing the rotors, they also don't dust up super bad like some other pads. they mostly are popular with euro cars since they don't dust that bad, brake dust is a huge problem on euro cars. but they make pads for all the import cars too.

the high speed flutter is probably the stock rotors needing to be cut, but just get new ones, buy the time you do the labor to fix the stock ones you've almost paid for new ones.

this is what you do, go get a G-Tech Pro and do some 60-0 runs, then replace everything and do some more runs and post up all the info for us :D or come down here and I'll let you borrow my G-Tech :cool:

[CivicBeater]

Werd. It would be pretty sweet to see what the difference is after going to an aftermarket set-up. Especially since it's not so cheap.

Those PBR's claim to be low on dust (ceramic) and perfect for the DD who see's the track every once and a while. So we'll see.

[Kicklow]

i run powerslot slotted with ebc greenstuffs right now. when they arent squeeking...they arent bad. before that was brembo blanks with autozone specials...no problems either. if you go with the powerslots.....ebc redstuffs or hawk pads would be the way i would do it.

[Almighty-Si]

I will be going with 4 cross drilleds, VGX pads, synthetic oil and steel braided lines.

[CivicBeater]

I will be going with 4 cross drilleds, VGX pads, synthetic oil and steel braided lines.

Why so much for a car so slow????:roflmao:

[Almighty-Si]

Because I'm so slow, but if people see all that they might think i'm super fast and not challenge me.

[CivicBeater]

Because I'm so slow, but if people see all that they might think i'm super fast and not challenge me.

LOL. So you think like me then!

When I do a search on VGX. Barely anything comes up except BS. Are they some underground dope company or something?

[Almighty-Si]

You looking for a place to buy? Summit racing has them for 23.50 I believe.

[CivicBeater]

you guys are all using the ceramic ones right? I don't see any for honda on summit

All they have is Semi-metallic and graphite. Which is it?!?!

[CivicBeater]

Well I just sent off what I wanted to IRP to get a lil quote for everything.

After reading more reviews and crap I like these:
http://www.importrp.com/files/thumbnails/t_8019.jpg

to match up with them I like the PBR/Axxis Ultimate Pads.

[candymanjl]

yeah those are powerslots, they work well, they also come with this coating that helps keep them from corroding, pretty cool.

VGX shouldn't be that hard to find, when I got them for my last crx the local repair shop carried them.

summit has a make/model search now for finding parts, it really easy to use redneck :p took about 4 seconds :p

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?SearchType=Make&N=700+4294907813+4294907812+4294924666+115+400161

says for $23.50 you can kit the kit, pretty sure that means front and rear, it wasn't very descriptive, just call them to make sure.

[CivicBeater]

yeah those are powerslots, they work well, they also come with this coating that helps keep them from corroding, pretty cool.

VGX shouldn't be that hard to find, when I got them for my last crx the local repair shop carried them.

summit has a make/model search now for finding parts, it really easy to use redneck :p took about 4 seconds :p

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?SearchType=Make&N=700+4294907813+4294907812+4294924666+115+400161

says for $23.50 you can kit the kit, pretty sure that means front and rear, it wasn't very descriptive, just call them to make sure.

yeah i found those doofus, however there are no ceramic ones

[candymanjl]

lol, haven't heard doofus in a long time :D I'd say call them, they have everything.